The way I look at it, you have re-iterated my point that PEOPLE are at fault. If you had truly comprehended my comments, I think you might have more of an understanding of my mindset. PEOPLE created this situation and the dogs are being made to pay. Lilly died because of people being at fault, both directly and indirectly. Igor’s life is threatened directly because of people. That’s the bottom line.

“Trained” is something that PEOPLE do with/to dogs. Dogs don’t train themselves. In some instances, things that bad, unbalanced, sick people train dogs to do goes against dog instinct, normal dog behavior and the safety of the community. Pitbulls are not born vicious, PEOPLE train them to be vicious. When they’re born they’re just as innocent and sweet as a newborn human baby or a French Poodle puppy. If I were to blindfold you and hand you two puppies, you’d never know one of them was a Pitbull and the other a Labrador because they are both squiggly, friendly puppies. I’m sure Igor was no different in that respect when he was a puppy. In general, dogs are usually very people oriented, friendly animals until PEOPLE train them to be otherwise.

People have domesticated dogs to live with us, within OUR rules and boundaries. We don’t live in their world, many people don’t even try to understand them. We just expect dogs to live in our world. That’s part of the unfortunate side of being a domesticated dog living in a human world. We expect dogs to live within our boundaries but the majority of people do not try to understand dog BEHAVIOR, yet dogs are expected to understand us. A good majority of people don’t realize that there is a great difference between dog behavior and what people train into dogs. Dogs live in our society under people-oriented expectations. When they don’t live up to our expectations, we take it out on them. That’s just plain wrong.

If you have an expectation of a person and they don’t live up to that expectation, who’s fault is it? It’s yours because one person does not have the right to require any other person to live up to our expectations. It’s not right or fair to place expectations on another. If we do, we are setting OURSELVES up for disappointment. Why then do we place human expectations on dogs that don’t even speak the human language, are not part of human make-up and expect them to live up to those expectations? Even our own parents do not have the right to expect that we live the life THEY want for us. As adults we have the right to live our lives as we wish. If we disappoint our parents, it’s our parent’s fault for expecting us to live in their world. In our throw-away society, it’s easier to just get rid of something that doesn’t live up to our expectations.

Someone trained Igor to act the way he does. Igor did not sign up for training school, and pay the bill and read a book to be trained to attack people. Some PERSON did this. Igor, being a dog, was doing what his owner told him to do when he was trained. That’s one of the expectations that humans put on dogs. Igor had no clue that what was being taught to him was wrong or that it could hurt people or other animals. He followed HIS leader, that’s it and for that he’s being condemned to die? Mr. Lohrke should be held severely accountable, not Igor. Some communities hold the parents accountable when their children misbehave, why is it any different for dogs?

Just like he was trained to attack, he can be RE-trained NOT to if given the opportunity and the proper re-instruction. Someone offered to pay his way to DogTown where this can more than likely be accomplished. Igor would be removed from the community where it has wreaked havoc (thanks to HUMAN training) but not made to pay for what people did to him by dying at their hands. If he was so bad off that DogTown could not rehabilitate him, he could remain at DogTown ALIVE and live out his life, safe for him and for any community.

Lilly’s owner reacted as most any HUMAN would trying to save her beloved dog. The fact remains that how she and her friend reacted DID escalate the situation no matter how it started. People excitement of any kind, even if it’s inside and not noticeable to other humans, IS sensed by a dog and excites a dog in any situation thus the situation escalates. They reacted the way they did because they are human which is natural and normal in their quest to save Lilly. They didn’t know any other way TO react. I’m not blaming Lilly’s owner or her friend, I’m just saying that they contributed to the escalation because they reacted they way they did, as humans. But there ARE other ways, ways that would de-escalate this kind of situation, such as Mr. Lohrke stepping in and removing his dog or calling him off. Lilly would probably still have been injured, maybe severely, but she may have lived.

No, I wasn’t there but that has little if no bearing on the bottom line. What it seems you apparently aren’t understanding was that Igor was doing what he was taught to do BY HUMANS and/OR behaving as a dog behaves instinctually IF provoked by another. Being dogs is not always civilized by human definition. Many times dog behavior is purely and simply instinct and that’s a big issue that a huge part of the human population doesn’t understand. Provocation to a dog can be very different than human to human provocation. If someone gets in your face, even if it’s in fun and you don’t like their brand of fun, you are going to do something to make it stop. You are going to react when you’ve had enough, you are going to defend yourself if you feel threatened. You may walk away, you may throw a punch. This may very well depend on how YOU were raised by your own parents, how YOU were trained. One way is civilized, the other is not. Did you know that one dog looking another dog directly in the eyes can cause an immediate dog fight? People looking at one another in the eyes, doesn’t normally provoke a fight, but it sure can in dogs!

I did say that Igor never should have been un-leashed and un-muzzled. His owner (a PERSON!) is at fault for letting him loose PERIOD. His OWNER (a PERSON!) not only allowed this to happen but made the conscious decision to go to the park and remove Igor’s “protection gear” against all rules of common sense. Igor did not do that on his own.

Igor is being blamed and condemned for something PEOPLE did to him. He should not have to pay the high price of death for it. Making the community safe from dogs like Igor does not have to mean killing them. It can instead mean removing them to a place where they can be helped. They didn’t get mean and vicious on their own, they had help from humans. Humans who truly understand dogs can change this.

One poor little dog is already dead. Unfortunately, that cannot be changed. We cannot bring Lilly back and I do feel very badly about that. I can say without question that I understand Lilly’s family’s pain because one of our little terriers was once attacked by a prey driven German Shepherd. It’s absolutely heartbreaking and one of the scariest things I’ve ever witnessed. She was severely injured, almost died, but lived because my husband knew how to “break this up” without escalating the situation. At that time, had it just been me there not knowing how to handle this properly, our little dog would have died no different than Lilly did. Lilly’s was a senseless death that could have been prevented.

Having had terriers ourselves for many, many years, we know that they can be big instigators and that they are in most instances, fearless. I had one once that took on a huge Rottweiler and chased the Rottie down the street. To see this would have made a great “Funniest Home Video” to a human. To dogs it was instinct and nothing funny about it. It does say loudly that the size of the other dog is not something a dog thinks about. If Lilly got in Igor’s face (which is typical instinctual terrier behavior), Igor is going to react because he is feeling threatened and he’s going to defend. It’s also very possible that Igor’s instinctual prey drive kicked in. A little dog is no different than a rabbit or a squirrel to a dog who has a high prey drive. It doesn’t even have to be a big dog. That’s instinct and part of dog behavior and has nothing to do with training.

As humans, we don’t understand this unless we understand dog behavior, and so most people don’t like it but only because they don’t understand it. It’s uncivilized to us. If we understand it from the dog’s point of view, it actually does make sense. Dogs are domesticated, which is not the same as being civilized. They will most always revert to instinct when cornered or feel threatened. Unfortunately for both dogs, Igor was trained (by people) to over-react which on top of instinct, and no intervention from his owner, was deadly for Lilly.

You said that Igor’s owner stood by and watched and didn’t try to help the victims in the attack(s). You have just made my point for me again. Igor’s owner had the capability to intervene in ALL instances, give Igor a command to stop or whatever it is that Igor is humanly TRAINED to respond to in order to stop attack behavior. Igor doesn’t know any better, he was doing what he was taught to do. His OWNER should. His OWNER should be made to pay the price for this, not Igor.

This is Igor’s THIRD UNPROVOKED ATTACK. When he attacked the woman, and you could have done your homework on this, THE OWNER STOOD BY AND WATCHED, without coming to her aid.

The owner is a convicted felon. As came out in the Middleton city council meeting, this dog has been TRAINED TO ATTACK POLICE.

This dog just doesn’t bite, HE MAULS. Without provocation.

Your irresponsibility in seeking to understand the facts is pathetic.

Angie

Can you imagine what would have happened if they were home alone and got into this tangled up mess? You’d have come home to a dead dog and you would never be able to forgive yourself. I would not want that to happen to me or Ranger.

Bye,
Sue

Man, do you ever watch those animal rescue shows on Animal Planet? I see those dogs with embedded collars and I can’t even begin to imagine the pain that must cause. Imagine YOUR neck being dug into like that!

Not only does the dog have to endure this kind of pain, but at the same time because of how animals deal with pain to help hide themselves from predators - they have to pretend it doesn’t hurt! Dogs are amazing but if you have even one ounce of compassion in your bones, you gotta feel that pain they go through. This kinda crap has to be stopped!

Mike

I’m of the opinion that no dog bites without a reason. Their minds work differently than human minds and they perceive things differently than people do many times.

Not enough people look at the dog’s behavior surrounding a bite and most people think “I didn’t do anything and he bit me!” Yeah, that’s because they don’t know or won’t admit they DID do something. They just don’t realize it because many behaviors dogs display are subtle and people don’t know there are things you’d never suspect that can affect a dog’s behavior. Unless you know what to look for, you won’t see it.

Sam

Way to go guys!

Georgie

Thanks for stopping by, we’re so glad you did!

I’ll have Mom take a look at DoodleKisses and I’ll check it out myself, too. Our web site is not nearly done so maybe she can add what you asked about. Sounds like a fun place, thanks for the suggestion.

Riley

My name is Diablo, and I have one sister and 3 brothers. My sister is the only one lucky enough to be a German Shepherd like myself. One brother of mine is a German Shorthair Pointer mix, and the other two are cats.

Anyway, I’ve been searching for a website similar to the one my friend has found. He’s a Golden Doodle, and visits a website named DoodleKisses.com. It’s a fun website to visit. You can post pictures, write blogs, ect. Maybe you can take a look at it and see what you think??

Well, it’s time for me to take my afternoon nap. I’ll check back in later.

Thank you,

Diablo Veldboon